Why BETM Continues in the UK?

accessmenj
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Re: Why BETM Continues in the UK?

Post by accessmenj »

porschesrule wrote:There are many reasons, which I'm sure we'll hear from the many knowledgeable members of this forum.

One of the biggest reasons, however, has to be cost. The labor costs alone are considerably more for a Broadway show than for one in the West End. The unusually large child cast and the need for multiple casting of some of those child roles, the training required, and all the other support they required made it a very expensive show on Broadway compared to in England. I've read where they pay child cast members "peanuts" compared to the much higher salaries demanded by Equity contracts in NYC and elsewhere in the US.

I don't think I've ever seen comparative weekly revenues for the London production of the show, but the Broadway numbers were published weekly and are public information. I remember reading at the time of the BETMNY closing announcement where a producer mentioned that if the show had an average gross of $700K a week, that wasn't enough to make ends meet (the show grossed over $1M a week for many weeks in the first couple of years).

I think another very significant reason is cultural. BETM is a British show and many of the theatre-goers in London are British. While I think the creative people in the US and other places where a production of the show has been mounted did a very good job of adapting to their audiences and there are definitely universal themes in the show that play well elsewhere, I think the "Englishness" of the show in London is a different atmosphere than when the production is in another country.

A third reason (and then I'll shut up an let others add to the discussion) is the huge amount of school groups that pack the matinees every week at the VPT. That never was the case in the US. Again the coarse language etc. is culturally accepted differently in Great Britain than it appears to be in the US and that has been frequently cited as a reason why schools in the US haven't as enthusiastically embraced the show as they have in London.

I agree that the lack of school groups has much to do with the fact that Billy Elliot The Musical failed to reach the "critical mass" of fans who would continue to spread the word to keep the theaters full. And that has everything to do with how silly Americans are with respect to what they consider "bad language".
The British got over their silly idea that "bloody" was an unacceptable word. And they accept other crude language. But Americans are only starting to ease up on their shock over the use of four letter words. It seems that recently the use of "freakin' " is allowed, even though everyone knows what word is really meant. But the prudes still can't accept the word "fookin' ".
Freakin' is OK, but Fookin' or the actual word is not. Come on America, grow up.
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Re: Why BETM Continues in the UK?

Post by jdmag44 »

This is a fascinating topic and I am following with great interest. No doubt there are numerous reasons why the show is not here anymore and still thriving in London. I agree with most of the reasons expressed here so far, and think that cost is primary. Chicago ended its run early perhaps for many of the same reasons. The tour made some significant changes in sets, and the many trucks used to transport them, in an attempt to keep ;the show alive.
I may be off base here: (I have no clear stats to back this up) but it seems to me that the tour could have lasted longer, and have been more financially successful, if they didn't do so many short one week runs. Perhaps a two week run would have been a better choice. Word of mouth from enthusiastic patrons could kick in. Many of the one week stops were very well attended and perhaps could have done well with an added week. Boston was three weeks and I think it could have gone much longer.

I think that the fact that the show is uniquely British, not only draws British theater goers, but it may also be the reason why so many tourists chose this musical over some of the others while they are in London.

The large number of school groups attending the show in London certainly helps.
I feel strongly that the language was a big deterrent to school groups in this country. . Even though the language was toned down from London to New York, and then toned down even further for the tour, that must have been done for a reason, one of which may be that there was a strong reaction to it. The strong warning in the advertising for the show certainly does not help. I am sure that some parents chose not to take their kids to the show because of this warning. How many promotional TV news segments did a great job interviewing cast and showing video clips, all of which must have peaked interest in their viewers, only to ruin it at the end by saying - "We must warn you this show contains strong language and some violence" "
I very much agree with assessman we Americans are far too hung up on language. I have seen people leave the theater after only a few scenes complaining about the language. during the many shows I have attended I heard numerous comments about the language and how "inappropriate" it was for a show about children. Even "piss off" really bothered some people.
Schools may have not wanted to take a chance on upsetting parents. It seems that a number of people do not want the children in the show to have a "potty-mouth" and certainly don't want children hearing these "bad words". We really do need to grow up.
That's my "flogging" opinion!
Oh shoot - did I say "flogging"? I'm sorry.
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porschesrule
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Re: Why BETM Continues in the UK?

Post by porschesrule »

jdmag44 wrote:if they didn't do so many short one week runs. Perhaps a two week run would have been a better choice.
In order to reduce salary costs, part of the revised tour arrangement was to convert from a full Equity contract show to a SETA contract show, the stipulations of which limited the number of more than one week stops the tour could have.
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Re: Why BETM Continues in the UK?

Post by kport »

Joe (jdmag44) makes a fair point about too many short stays. I still find it incomprehensible that Clearwater had just three sold out performances before moving to finish that week in Richmond. Clearwater could easily have packed them in for the week.

However, the two three weeks runs I attended were mixed in terms of success. The Straz, Tampa,(2/11) saw good numbers the first week, then things tailed off to less than 50% in the second and third weeks, with a bump up the last weekend. That was under the previous, not SETA tour contract, and it had to have lost money. Boston (8/12) (a SETA contract) was also three weeks, but numbers held up pretty well. Then again, Boston in July/August is a bit like London, full of tourists, and BETM got great publicity as the 'must do' event in town, with a local lad (Noah) and local leading man (Rich Hebert) in the main title roles.

The problem with 'sit down' venues, such as Broadway or Chicago, is that the performers and others are on the full Actors' Equity contract, at higher rates of pay and expenses. One reason Network Presentations was able to relaunch the Tour was the introduction of SETA (Short Engagement Touring Agreement Contracts) which limits the duration of stops at venues, and whose pay and expense rates are considerably lower. Hence SETA requires the Tour to be more peripatetic. The number of three week stops are limited. Clark Transfers is THE specialist in the field of moving shows around, and would be able to move the tour with a contract and costs more or less fixed. One week stops seemed to attract pretty good numbers all eight shows in most venues. The second week/third weeks' attendance always dropped in number until the final weekend, which always seems to perk up a bit.

I note that the MUNY has placed notices for actors' auditions for the non-touring summer shows, including BETM, and that there are a mix of AE and non-union roles being offered, the latter especially for non-principles and children. The practice at Ogunquit Playhouse is to feature a show over three weeks. Both the MUNY and OPH have very active summer acting and dance camps, for kids of the appropriate age for BETM, who can be cast and begin rehearsals long before the show arrives. If non-principles are locally sourced, leaving principles only to be AE members, on a SETA contract, then I can see how regional performances can work, and offer a new wrinkle to the way this complex, yet extraordinary, show is presented.
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Re: Why BETM Continues in the UK?

Post by Musical Fanatic »

I remember the articles and the discussions from a few years ago. The comment that I remember from the lead producers(Working Titles films) was roughly "god I cant believe how much it costs with so many kids in the cast " :( . Its impossible to know the London production costs or revenue because they rarely release that info. Here is my rough guess at cost of the kids so that everyone can understand this point. 4Billy's, 2 Michael's, 1 TB, 2SB's, 1 Debbie, 10BG's and 3Swing BG's =23kids

23x $1692 a week (2010 figure for equity actor)Then add 30% at a guess for taxes and misc.

Tutors for the Billy's and Michael's(and they were needed for except maybe July and part of Aug for USA cast not sure about tutors for OZ or Swiss or....... :D )
Chiropractor paid weekly for the kids
Chaperones/ kid wranglers(3or4 ?)
A training studio( not even a clue on its cost)available daily/weekly
Multiple trainers(ballet, tap , etc)
And Nora Brennan and Assoc. out scouting constantly to find new Billy's and Michael"s

So in the end you were looking at a small army to upkeep the child portion of the show and in NY that had to be a small fortune,


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Re: Why BETM Continues in the UK?

Post by Todd »

Borrobil wrote:This is more a thought and I hope I'm three decades behind. I'd be interested how you in the States think. I have the impression (probably from movies of the 1970's, to 2000's) that a lot of the Americans on the middle or higher rungs of the employment ladder, (the main theatre goers), see the communist/socialist (even anarchist) ways of the miners as unthinkable for the American people.
That could mean less understanding of how the community worked. (I guess that's why Angry Dance involves the whole community in the US version).
Europeans are less likely to find communist views so bad even if they don't go along with the politics. They can empathise with the story without thinking. (eg. Everyone uses the Co-op here, there's even co-operatives for posh people. Do they have them in the States?)

Similarly I wonder, from this side of the pond, if an American teacher will take their class to a play sympathising even slightly with the communists, even today; when they could just as easily see Jersey Boys. It certainly would not be an issue in most of Europe or Asia. I may have been fed bad propaganda of course.
I think your comments are pretty much accurate still today. I would guess that Americans' disdain for Socialist policies goes back to the tension that was prevalent for quite a few years between The U.S. and Soviet Union in the 1970's and '80's. And of course further back was the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 when the U.S. and Russia were brought to the brink of a nuclear war. While that was all a long time ago, those fears and distrust on the part of Americans for anything Communist or Socialist became part of the national conscience, and not quickly forgotten . . .much like the distaste for Margaret Thatcher in U.K. mining regions that continues nearly 30 years later after the Miners' Strike.

As for American teachers taking their class to a play, it usually has to be something historical or educational, and fairly G-rated (at least for middle school-age where I teach). I'm afraid "Jersey Boys" wouldn't pass the rough-language test for a school field trip either, even though I thought it was a very entertaining show.
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StevenKing
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Re: Why BETM Continues in the UK?

Post by StevenKing »

Jeez, it's so freaking sad we can't get over the use of such words, gosh darn it!! :lol: I can attest that most older folk very much look down even on the use of piss off here, I've been called on it.
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