Suggestion About Negative Published Reviews

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accessmenj
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Suggestion About Negative Published Reviews

Post by accessmenj »

I have a recommendation concerning some of the mean-spirited reviews that attack the performances of the children in Billy Elliot The Musical. The members of this forum always try to be positive and provide support to the child stars. We all realize that these kids have spent years of work to get this far. And they are kids, and could be destroyed by harsh criticism.

But we post a link to nasty reviews, which can hurt the children. We may only do this so we can refute the review and point out its mistakes. But we are inadvertently helping to spread the cruel statements.

My suggestion is to copy and paste any review that contains direct criticism of any of the children. Then delete the hurtful passages before you post. Do not post a link to any review that is harsh to the children.

The next step is to send a PM to one of the moderators, such as ERinVA containing the link. This is necessary so the information can be verified. Any adult forum member can PM the moderator if they would like the link to read the objectionable material. This would prevent the review from getting more publicity than it deserves and shelter the child actors.

I guess that I am making more work for you, ERinVA, but let me know what you think.
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rob_hanson1979
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Re: Forum Rules Video

Post by rob_hanson1979 »

I don't understand how anyone can have any negative criticism or any of the child actors in BETM. It boggles my mind. Those kids are all SO talented. Right from Billy to the ballet girls. They all worked so hard to get where they are!
When I think of where I was at that age, there's no way I could've pulled off anything requiring that much work and dedication!
I am in awe of them all, and I congratulate them!
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ERinVA
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Re: Forum Rules Video

Post by ERinVA »

Thanks for your suggestions, accessmenj. Since I am actually the person who linked the harsh review of Zach’s performance, which I assume is what has occasioned this post, I just want to tell you that I debated with myself about whether to post the link, but in the end, since it was public and not a forum member’s review, I decided to go ahead and give the link. This was a judgment call on my part that some may not agree with, but I accept responsibility for it.

In retrospect, given the choice again, I might have decided not to link that particular review, but I expect that the same link would have been posted by someone else had I not done so. While I would never have copied the review itself on the forum, I did ultimately decide to go ahead and post the link because, while our rules govern forum members' posts, they do not govern what critics for publications put on the internet or in a newspaper. Indeed, I pointed this out in a subsequent post in the Reviews thread when the discussion veered away from criticizing the harshness of the review into territory that our rules do actually address, because I felt, as you suggest above, that the discussion did have the effect of giving the review more credence than it deserved.

I don’t think that copying the texts of published reviews onto the forum with negative parts redacted makes practical sense. If a member feels that a published review needs to be altered when linking it, then the best approach in that case would just be not to link it in the first place. But do I think there should be a forum rule against linking harsh published reviews? No, I don’t. Although negative reviews do occur, as we know, to be perfectly honest, I think the review in question is the only published review of its particular kind that I have ever encountered. If such occurrences were common, I might feel differently about a rule. But fortunately, they are not.
Ellen



"I don't want people who want to dance; I want people who have to dance.”
-George Balanchine 1904 -1983


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Todd
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Re: Suggestion About Negative Published Reviews

Post by Todd »

I agree with your judgment on this issue, Ellen. I also agree that every kid in this show is extremely talented and I can't imagine someone writing a harsh review about a particular Billy or Michael or Debbie, etc.

But when they sign their contract agreeing to enter the world of public performing, I'm sure the children are told that not everyone is going to sing their praises 100% of the time. That's just part of show business - that some critics are going to find fault with your performance whether you deserve it or not. I'm not sure that telling them, "Here's all the reviews that said you were great" while sheltering them from the ones that are negative is the right thing to do, since dealing with criticism is something they'll have to get used to if they wish to continue on with a professional career in the performing arts.

Nobody likes to see bad things written about themselves, especially when they're 12 or 13 or 14 years old. But such is the nature of performing in the public arena. The kids are learning a valuable lesson about the consequences of being up in front of an audience - whether it's on stage, in movies, or an athletic competition. One lesson might be to not read their "press clippings" if the negative ones bother them too much. For others, they might see it as motivation to keep improving so that no one can possibly find fault with their performance.

As for me - and I'm sure probably everyone reading this - I think that what these kids do in the show is nothing short of amazing, as they're among the most talented youngsters I've ever seen. And as Theodore Roosevelt once said: "It's not the critic that counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled . . . the credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust, sweat, and blood . . .. who errs and often comes up short. . . .who at best in the end knows the triumph of his achievements and who at worst if he fails, at least fails while doing greatly."
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ERinVA
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Re: Suggestion About Negative Published Reviews

Post by ERinVA »

Todd wrote:I agree with your judgment on this issue, Ellen. I also agree that every kid in this show is extremely talented and I can't imagine someone writing a harsh review about a particular Billy or Michael or Debbie, etc.

But when they sign their contract agreeing to enter the world of public performing, I'm sure the children are told that not everyone is going to sing their praises 100% of the time. That's just part of show business - that some critics are going to find fault with your performance whether you deserve it or not. I'm not sure that telling them, "Here's all the reviews that said you were great" while sheltering them from the ones that are negative is the right thing to do, since dealing with criticism is something they'll have to get used to if they wish to continue on with a professional career in the performing arts.

Nobody likes to see bad things written about themselves, especially when they're 12 or 13 or 14 years old. But such is the nature of performing in the public arena. The kids are learning a valuable lesson about the consequences of being up in front of an audience - whether it's on stage, in movies, or an athletic competition. One lesson might be to not read their "press clippings" if the negative ones bother them too much. For others, they might see it as motivation to keep improving so that no one can possibly find fault with their performance.
That said, as we all know, the forum requires a different standard from its members in their reviews, and that will continue to be the case. Some who find their reviews or other posts moderated don't like it, of course, but in signing on as members, people agree to abide by our rules. We can't moderate the world at large, but we can (and do) moderate members' posts.
Ellen



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-George Balanchine 1904 -1983


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BEtourfan
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Re: Suggestion About Negative Published Reviews

Post by BEtourfan »

Todd wrote:But when they sign their contract agreeing to enter the world of public performing, I'm sure the children are told that not everyone is going to sing their praises 100% of the time. That's just part of show business - that some critics are going to find fault with your performance whether you deserve it or not ... dealing with criticism is something they'll have to get used to if they wish to continue on with a professional career in the performing arts.
It's certainly true that critics will at times find fault with a child's performance. But I don't agree this is something children should "have to get used to" if they wish to continue in the performing arts. No matter how talented the children are, they're still subject to the same vulnerabilities--and deserving of the same protection--as any other child.
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angelenroute
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Re: Suggestion About Negative Published Reviews

Post by angelenroute »

Todd wrote:And as Theodore Roosevelt once said: "It's not the critic that counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled . . . the credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust, sweat, and blood . . .. who errs and often comes up short. . . .who at best in the end knows the triumph of his achievements and who at worst if he fails, at least fails while doing greatly."
I agree completely with the sentiment behind your idea, accessmenj, and I appreciate you making such a kind suggestion! I do think Ellen's right though. We'll continue to moderate ourselves (with the help of the moderators stepping in from time to time to keep us in check). Even as a moderator, I appreciate knowing the other mods are there to watch what I ramble about! :D

And Todd, great quote! These kids have proven time and again how much of themselves they put into every single performance! I'd only add "vomit" to the above quote. God knows there have been kids who get themselves literally sick to their stomach while trying to finish a show. They are each and all nothing short of incredible, wonderful, and inspiring!

Sean

"Good writers define reality; bad ones merely restate it." -Edward Albee
accessmenj
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Re: Suggestion About Negative Published Reviews

Post by accessmenj »

I have to agree with both moderators that I am perhaps jumping the gun since all the other reviews that did not like the show were careful to praise the children. I do think that eventually a review will be even worse with homophobic, sexist or racists comment. I will have to trust the members, backed up by the moderators, to not post a link to that kind of hate.

BEtourfan points out that children should not" have to get used to" their self-esteem being attacked. I think that there is plenty of time for that when they grow older. The idea of not sheltering children reminds me of the way teachers used to ignore bullying. It was a form of "what doesn't kill you will make you stronger". Now we know better. Bullying and destroying self esteem does kill and all young children need to be sheltered.
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ERinVA
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Re: Suggestion About Negative Published Reviews

Post by ERinVA »

There have been quite a few published reviews that have commented about the fact that Billy did not look like the rest of his family, which I suppose might be interpreted as racist. Some of the reviewers found it to be a real hurdle; whereas, others noted that after a bit of puzzlement, they forgot all about the difference. There have also been reviewers who were put off by the gay-related themes in the show, which might be interpreted as homophobic. But the biggest complaint, especially from blog-type reviewers, tends to be about the language, so go figure. :?

As for published reviews that you feel deserve to be refuted, there is always the option of going to the website of the publication and posting a comment to take the reviewer to task. Occasionally this isn't possible, but more often than not, it is. I haven't checked to see if that could happen with the review in question, but if it can, I say, "Go for it with all guns firing!"
Ellen



"I don't want people who want to dance; I want people who have to dance.”
-George Balanchine 1904 -1983


To follow the forum's Twitter at http://twitter.com/BEForum, click on the direct link in Applies to All Forums above.
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StevenKing
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Re: Suggestion About Negative Published Reviews

Post by StevenKing »

That Linked review is probably the only negative review of a Billy I've ever read so I wouldnt worry about there being many on those. Now on the other hand in the shear volume of Twitter posts a few negative to out right abusive (homophobic usually) come out but even there it's a tiny minority.
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