Billy and Tony

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JTfan
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Billy and Tony

Post by JTfan »

A question - do people feel there is enough in BETM to give you the feeling that Billy and Tony have a bond as brothers? I kind of missed a scene like that the second time I saw the show (I've only seen it twice in 4 years). In the movie you have small bits like Tony being mad at Billy for playing his records. The stuff siblings do and say. In the musical Tony and Billy don't share a room - probably for efficiency reasons in regard to the staging. But I also miss a kind of brotherly feel. If you compare to Billy's relationship to his Dad and to his Nanna.
Please comment!
(and apologies in advance if this has already been covered elsewhere)
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accessmenj
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Re: Billy and Tony

Post by accessmenj »

I always felt that the brotherly relationship between Tony and Billy was missing from the show because of the big difference between their ages. In most productions, Tony was almost old enough to be Billy's father. I would have preferred if they were closer in age, but Tony was always used as another parent rather than a sibling.
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Re: Billy and Tony

Post by kport »

accessmenj wrote:I always felt that the brotherly relationship between Tony and Billy was missing from the show because of the big difference between their ages. In most productions, Tony was almost old enough to be Billy's father. I would have preferred if they were closer in age, but Tony was always used as another parent rather than a sibling.
I view Tony as a 'younger' Dad, rather than an 'older' Billy. You see in him a youthful passion and a fire that is somewhat diminished in the older, beaten-down Dad - and you see the fight between the younger and the older father figures influencing Billy: the fight and reconciliation between Dad and Tony.
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LiamM
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Re: Billy and Tony

Post by LiamM »

The scene when Billy is packing and Tony gives him a miner's lamp is very touching. Tony's hand gesture gives a nod towards the sibling rivalry aspect.
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deebeeeff
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Re: Billy and Tony

Post by deebeeeff »

In some shows, during Deep Into the Ground, you will see Tony and Billy sitting next to each other on the step, interacting the way brothers might.
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JTfan
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Re: Billy and Tony

Post by JTfan »

Thanks for the replies so far :)
LiamM wrote:The scene when Billy is packing and Tony gives him a miner's lamp is very touching. Tony's hand gesture gives a nod towards the sibling rivalry aspect.
That was actually the moment I realised there hadn't been similar moments earlier in the show.

I agree with the "other parent" comments. That's actually very true, I just couldn't put the words to it.
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ERinVA
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Re: Billy and Tony

Post by ERinVA »

The dynamic between Tony and Jackie is a very important one in the show, and gets more play than the dynamic between Tony and Billy. In the show, there is more of a power struggle going on between Tony and Dad than there is in the film. Tony is more of an adult in the show than he is in the film, so the struggle becomes about who will take over the leadership of the family in this situation, as opposed to a "hot-headed rebellious teenager vs parent" struggle, which is more of what we see in the film.
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Re: Billy and Tony

Post by Borrobil »

I would agree the relationship between Billy and Tony isn't developed much in the stage show, and it's quite different to the Film.

Billy never even looks at Tony, except to disavow some criticism, until the leaving scenes. And the community gives Billy his support after Dad tries to scab - not his brother. (As far as I remember, only in the last year or so, has Billy started calling after "...Tony" as he exits, after he's said "what's the point in trying to keep your family together anyway." before that there was no love shown between them at all in that scene.)

Tony's is unable to be a brother, the same as Dad can't be a father.... and Billy's probably just as bad until he starts dancing, (he shows no child/adult relationship with his dad in the "You're a Ba****d" scene). Just look at the opening when George announces the start of the strike. Does Tony celebrate with Billy whose right there? No, he picks up small boy instead.
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JTfan
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Re: Billy and Tony

Post by JTfan »

Wow, thanks for everyone's insights!
I guess maybe Lee Hall intended a different role for Tony in the musical than in the film. Also in terms of the storyline between Dad and Tony. That storyline is part of the whole ofcourse and it's in this whole that Billy's main story is played out.

Come to think of it, Billy seems more close, or shows more affection towards female characters. His Grandma, Mrs. Wilkinson, even Michael in a way, you could say, is feminine.
(I appreciate the fact that the word "feminine" is charged with meaning and I don't want to offend or upset anyone, I hope everyone will understand what I'm trying to say ;) ).
The whole male / female division in the community where Billy grows up is an important part of the story's background. Grandma's Song also shows that.

ETA: It's obvious that one of the most important parts of Billy's role is the fact that he misses his mother which could explain in part his fondness of Mrs. Wilkinson (although this fondness is not obvious in the beginning ;) ).

Billy seems more remote to the men in his family, Dad and Tony. Only in the end they grow more towards eachother which is a very moving development in the story, very touching to watch.
Perhaps if there was more of a brotherly thing going on between Billy and Tony this whole aspect of Billy's relationships and growth would be less strong. I missed having that brotherly vibe going but maybe in hindsight it's best for the story as a whole to have it the way it is.

Still, to know that in some cases Billy and Tony sit on the steps together watching Dad sing Deep Into The Ground and interacting as siblings sounds very touching as well :)
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