London Production Rumours

[kport]

Barry raises some very accurate observations. The whole area is a complete mess. Perhaps relocating to a smaller theatre with maybe 900 to 1000 seats might be a viable alternative. The set would have to be more modest of course but I am sure could be made manageable. Cheap seats in row B could then become a thing of the past of course!

You make a worthy suggestion. But....

If you choose to go that way, and leave the VPT, why not simply go on the road as the US Tour did? There are many provincial theatre sites in the UK that could accommodate the musical with a reduced travelling set, and the EU who would be ecstatic to have the tour come to them. Meanwhile, Sir Stephen Waley-Cohen can get on with the much needed refurbishment of the VPT. As much as I love the home of Arthur Askey and Co., it is not up to snuff (quoting Gavroche) for a first rate theatrical production. (My father and I visited it in 1990 and he said it hadn't changed since his last time there...as a US Army Air Force Attache in WWII.) And BETM can return to the VPT when that, and the surrounding construction, is finished. In triumph. With head held high. In a first rate VPT.

In my humble opinion, I would caution about moving to a new, smaller site in London. The VPT and BETM are joined at the hip, and a break could well be a bad move. People sense despair, and stay away. There is a belief in the arts that tinkering with a tradition ends up destroying it. I can cite many, if you want. It would be better to call a hiatus (it would not be without precedent), or (better) hit the road on a Tour, refurbish the VPT now, and reopen BETM at the Mother Ship in glory when the dust has settled. This would keep going the training of cast (particularly young people) which will be hard to start up again from scratch. Or, simply hunker down, and wait for the construction to end. But if one delays, the refurbishment of the VPT will have to happen sometime after. It is scheduled, eventually, and it will halt the production. Why not grasp the opportunity, and do it now? With the surrounding construction, no one would raise an eyebrow. Go on Tour instead. It all makes sense.....

Moving it to a smaller theatre in London would be a disaster, in my view. A capitulation, with no upside benefit. Lower potential revenues with production costs as high. If you have to leave the VPT, hit the road, now. There is a good precedent for doing this; the business model is there; it is called the US Tours. Heck, let Networks take it on.

[pickles]

Moving it to a smaller theatre in London would be a disaster, in my view. A capitulation, with no upside benefit. Lower potential revenues with production costs as high. If you have to leave the VPT, hit the road, now. There is a good precedent for doing this; the business model is there; it is called the US Tours. Heck, let Networks take it on.

I'd have to agree with you, there. Not all shows survive the move to a smaller theatre. Les Mis, for example, which moved from the Palace to the Queen's 8 years ago, clearly survived the move. Chicago, which went from the Cambridge to the Garrick, didn't. If BETM were to leave the VPT, a tour would be the only way to go. I couldn't see Billy surviving the move to another West End theatre.

On a personal note, I'd rather BETM didn't leave the VPT just yet. If it did, I'd be out of a job!

[kport]

Moving it to a smaller theatre in London would be a disaster, in my view. A capitulation, with no upside benefit. Lower potential revenues with production costs as high. If you have to leave the VPT, hit the road, now. There is a good precedent for doing this; the business model is there; it is called the US Tours. Heck, let Networks take it on.

I'd have to agree with you, there. Not all shows survive the move to a smaller theatre. Les Mis, for example, which moved from the Palace to the Queen's 8 years ago, clearly survived the move. Chicago, which went from the Cambridge to the Garrick, didn't. If BETM were to leave the VPT, a tour would be the only way to go. I couldn't see Billy surviving the move to another West End theatre.

On a personal note, I'd rather BETM didn't leave the VPT just yet. If it did, I'd be out of a job!

I would rather see it hunker down and sit it out.

But..it does not answer the fact the the VPT will be closed at some point for major refurbishments.

[porschesrule]

If you have to leave the VPT, hit the road, now. There is a good precedent for doing this; the business model is there; it is called the US Tours. Heck, let Networks take it on.

It might not be as easy as just taking the existing cast from the VPT and putting them out on the road. While no set of obstacles can't be overcome, let me play devil's advocate here for a moment...

Utilizing the existing BETMUK cast for a road show, especially the child cast, would present a unique set of problems which BETMUS doesn't have, which might lead to re-casting the show in a different manner from how it's set up now:

1) As we know, the child labor laws in Great Britain are different from the US which has resulted in triple casting for some roles. Obviously taking that many kids on the road wouldn't be practical and would be cost prohibitive. So getting around the labor laws for the kids would be an issue. Also, I'm not familiar with the education requirements there. Are there issues regarding the schooling of the kids on a tour that might have to be overcome? Could the cast size be reduced to more approximate the BETMUS cast size and still fulfill the labor and education requirements in England?

2) The major child actors (Billy, Michael, Debbie) are currently housed in a "Billy House" in London, looked after by house parents, thus eliminating the need for guardians/parents to be with the kids during the week. The Tall Boys, Small Boys and BG's all live within driving distance of the theatre currently, but they too would now have to travel and be cared for. In a travelling situation, it's possible some existing cast's parents may not be in a position to do that travelling. While I suppose there could be a guardian situation established similar to the house parents at the current Billy House, being responsible for kids travelling and living out of suitcases in various hotels for short periods presents a whole other set of responsibilities. So it's possible that some exisiting cast may not be able to hit the road, for one reason or another, and therefore those roles might have to be recast.

Also, as Westletonion noted, the existing set would have to be replaced with one more similar to that of the BETMUS show. Again, not an unsurmountable obstacle, but a fairly costly one which would have to be overcome.

Rehearsing with new cast and a new set would take several weeks, so the tour couldn't start up right away after the last show at the VPT.

Just food for thought...

[ERinVA]

Taking the London version of BETM on tour would be a HUGE challenge, given the sheer numbers of kids that the production employs because of British child labor laws: 4 Billys, 3 Michaels, 3 Debbies, 3 teams of 10 Ballet Girls, 4 Small Boys, and 3 Tall Boys, for a total of 50 children to transport, house, chaperone and tutor.

Compare this to the US touring production with 4 Billys, 2 Michaels, 1 Debbie, 0 Tall Boys, 1 Small Boy, and one team of 9 Ballet Girls-- one of whom is actually an adult--and 1 swing, for a total of 18 kids. Even if you add in a couple of Billys and Michaels in training at any given time, you still come out with no more than 20.

[kport]

Wow. My earlier post on this subject seems to have been provocative!

When I suggested the possibility that NETworks PRESENTATIONS take on a UK/EU tour, I was not being entirely tongue-in-cheek. NETworks has produced European tours before. I was not thinking about retaining the London cast, as it is in all its number and all its glory, for a tour. I know all too well the UK's rules on child welfare, health and safety, employment law, educational requirement, OFSTED and Social Services, to conclude that one could simply load the Billy House residents and a chorus of Ballet Girls onto a coach and head out into the provinces with a hamper full of marmite sarnies and lashings of ginger beer. Networks took on the present US Tour and did not utilize the entire New York cast, nor the whole organization behind it, when it reformatted the production to make it work under vastly different physical and economic conditions. It took many of the cast from the previous Tour, and added to and subtracted from that, reduced the scale of the set, and made the Tour viable.

However, in the present economic climate (*) in London, the status quo may - sadly - be becoming unsustainable. We have read comments on this Forum that numbers seem thinner and tickets are being discounted to fill empty seats. The second half of 2012 was impacted by the Olympics, the Jubilee and appalling rains towards the Christmas period run-up. The demolition in the area has not helped. Add to that the possibility that the VPT will, at some point, have to close for refurbishment. Thinking outside the box about other possibilities is not an idle exercise, even if it does not produce a quick or easy answer based on present assumptions.

The present US Tour, reborn from the financial problems of the previous one, using entirely different contracts and even scaling down the set to save costs, is testament to the value of keeping an open mind - and adapting when conditions require it. The alternative is to throw in the towel in defeat. A UK/EU Tour can happen if open and knowledgeable minds are set to put it together. It need not be connected with the VPT production.

(*) (I read today that HMV, the UK's last - and venerable - chain of CD and DVD shops, has gone into receivership. A firm opened in 1922 by Edward Elgar. Remember Nipper the Dog? All gone. Along with several other household-name high street chains in recent months.)

[patc]

It is abundantly clear that sentimentality plays no part in show business, it is all about money, money, money. However, the VPT and Billy are inexorably linked and, while the refurbishing will take place someday, it is to be hoped that the show would return to the revamped theatre afterwards.

As long as I have been going to the show there has always been a drop-off in attendances at certain times of the year and this time is one of them. I was at another West End theatre last week and the front two rows were completely empty and there were gaps elsewhere. The weather won't help either.

Whilst I saw Billy in NYC on two separate visits to the USA and a few of the great BYT productions in UK the VPT is special. I couldn't imagine the show without the overall extremely enjoyable and irreplaceable experience of a visit there with the welcoming smiles and friendliness of management and staff a big part of it. If it moved to another theatre I'd still go but it wouldn't be quite the same.

Pat

[ERinVA]

When I suggested the possibility that NETworks PRESENTATIONS take on a UK/EU tour, I was not being entirely tongue-in-cheek. NETworks has produced European tours before. I was not thinking about retaining the London cast, as it is in all its number and all its glory, for a tour.

Sorry, but I missed that in your post about going on tour. It appeared to me, and also apparently to porschesrule, that you meant the London production, not the US touring one. I know that Networks has done international tours in the past, according to their website; however, the problem with Networks taking BETM on tour in the UK with a non-British cast, as I see it, would be that the show is too much of a British icon for that to work. We on this side of the pond might be forgiving of the accents as a result of our ignorance, but British audiences would not. I'm afraid the actors would get laughed off the stage. And that is probably just the tip of the iceberg. If Networks were to try to assemble a British cast, then they would run into the same problems with child labor laws that we have already mentioned.

[accessmenj]

When I suggested the possibility that NETworks PRESENTATIONS take on a UK/EU tour, I was not being entirely tongue-in-cheek. NETworks has produced European tours before. I was not thinking about retaining the London cast, as it is in all its number and all its glory, for a tour.

Sorry, but I missed that in your post about going on tour. It appeared to me, and also apparently to porschesrule, that you meant the London production, not the US touring one. I know that Networks has done international tours in the past, according to their website; however, the problem with Networks taking BETM on tour in the UK with a non-British cast, as I see it, would be that the show is too much of a British icon for that to work. We on this side of the pond might be forgiving of the accents as a result of our ignorance, but British audiences would not. I'm afraid the actors would get laughed off the stage. And that is probably just the tip of the iceberg. If Networks were to try to assemble a British cast, then they would run into the same problems with child labor laws that we have already mentioned.

Kids always learn foreign languages/accents better than adults. Adam in the UK was an example of a Yankee learning Geordi. But ERinVA was right; an adult cast from the United States would be not be able to learn the accent without it turning into Irish/Scottish/London/Manchester/Cockney mix that Londoners could not accept.

[ActingDude17]

If attendance does not pick up as we move into the spring, we should continue this discussion. But until then, I think it's important to realize that January is a slow time in the theatre everywhere and for everyone, BETM being no exception. It's to be expected after the holidays.